HID Research/Warnings
#11
12-12-2007 | 09:02 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 234
From:
RE: HID Research/Warnings
If anyone has ANZO Projector headlights, I contacted them and they said that they strongly recommend to stay away from HID because they had an incident a few years back of some melting.
Just thought id let yall know
Just thought id let yall know
#12
12-12-2007 | 01:43 PM
Been Around A Long Time Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,213
From: Wayne, NJ
RE: HID Research/Warnings
ORIGINAL: falkore24
An HID retro bulb fits into the holder for the halogen (simple enough). Based on your first link, the HID would eminate light through the "sweet spot" as well as a bit beyond since the HID light comes from the glass surface and the bulb only shines from the filament. Since our car's halogen headlights are not aimed like your BWM example, I don't think that system really fits this discussion. The note from the second link is justified with referance to the ballast and igniter rather than optics -- please don't skew info to favor your opinion.
I do agree that halogen fixtures are not optimized for HID use, but to claim that the light output would be all messed up with a conversion kit is wrong. I think that everyone (meaning less informed people and those without advanced physics training, not you
has to do their own research, but that doesn't seem to be the case lately. Also, I welcome a debate (your view = HID conversion creates a bad light output; my view = while not optimized, light output is not bad) on a worthwhile topic (not shooting the messanger!!)
I have aftermarket TYC projector fixtures that came with halogen H1 bulbs for low and high beams. I retrofitted the low beams to HID bulbs and recently (since the pictures were taken) upgraded the high beams to better halogen bulbs. I don't really like HID's for high beams since in the NYC metro area, you can't really keep your beams on for any length of time. Switching on and off repeatedly is bad for HID's (electronics).
An HID retro bulb fits into the holder for the halogen (simple enough). Based on your first link, the HID would eminate light through the "sweet spot" as well as a bit beyond since the HID light comes from the glass surface and the bulb only shines from the filament. Since our car's halogen headlights are not aimed like your BWM example, I don't think that system really fits this discussion. The note from the second link is justified with referance to the ballast and igniter rather than optics -- please don't skew info to favor your opinion.
I do agree that halogen fixtures are not optimized for HID use, but to claim that the light output would be all messed up with a conversion kit is wrong. I think that everyone (meaning less informed people and those without advanced physics training, not you
has to do their own research, but that doesn't seem to be the case lately. Also, I welcome a debate (your view = HID conversion creates a bad light output; my view = while not optimized, light output is not bad) on a worthwhile topic (not shooting the messanger!!)I have aftermarket TYC projector fixtures that came with halogen H1 bulbs for low and high beams. I retrofitted the low beams to HID bulbs and recently (since the pictures were taken) upgraded the high beams to better halogen bulbs. I don't really like HID's for high beams since in the NYC metro area, you can't really keep your beams on for any length of time. Switching on and off repeatedly is bad for HID's (electronics).
ORIGINAL: ludedude
Falkore24, in response to your second posting on this thread:
I am having difficulty understanding what you are trying to say in the first paragraph. But if you have independent research conducted by photometric engineers to support your case then by all means where is it? Note, I would not consider website photos ofbeam patterns shining on the ground or on garage doors asindependentor reliable or scientific research. I seriously doubt you even read the article on the web link in my original post or watched the YouTube video on that same link. I am not making this stuff up because I hate HID or something, nor do I have anything to gain from this debate if you want to call it that.
But I think we are in agreement on your second paragraph (sort of). That is essentially what I was trying to say, that you can't expect to have a good beam pattern by sticking a HID bulb into a headlight designed for a halogen filament bulb. If you get a good pattern it would be a matter of luck. And again unless you have a light tunnel and photometric equipment you really can't claim you have a good legal beam pattern just because it looks good shining on the ground.
Please don't claim my INDEPENDENT research citations are skewed when you have NONE to support your own arguments, it only makes your point of view appear biased and uninformed. You simplystate some of my points are irrelevant or don't fit but you do not back it up. You wouldn't sell HID kits by any chance?
Those pics do look good, but you can't really tell just by looking at pics. Dang they look good.
Falkore24, in response to your second posting on this thread:
I am having difficulty understanding what you are trying to say in the first paragraph. But if you have independent research conducted by photometric engineers to support your case then by all means where is it? Note, I would not consider website photos ofbeam patterns shining on the ground or on garage doors asindependentor reliable or scientific research. I seriously doubt you even read the article on the web link in my original post or watched the YouTube video on that same link. I am not making this stuff up because I hate HID or something, nor do I have anything to gain from this debate if you want to call it that.
But I think we are in agreement on your second paragraph (sort of). That is essentially what I was trying to say, that you can't expect to have a good beam pattern by sticking a HID bulb into a headlight designed for a halogen filament bulb. If you get a good pattern it would be a matter of luck. And again unless you have a light tunnel and photometric equipment you really can't claim you have a good legal beam pattern just because it looks good shining on the ground.
Please don't claim my INDEPENDENT research citations are skewed when you have NONE to support your own arguments, it only makes your point of view appear biased and uninformed. You simplystate some of my points are irrelevant or don't fit but you do not back it up. You wouldn't sell HID kits by any chance?
Those pics do look good, but you can't really tell just by looking at pics. Dang they look good.
The sketch below illustrates the "sweet spot" discussion. As indicated, the HID tube covers and emits light from all points that the bulb filament will hit. This is what I meant by the second sentance of the first paragraph.
The remark about the validity of the second link is in referance to the paragraph below ..... the entire paragraph that the note that you posted came from:
"NOTE : Xenon HID bulbs can only be used in vehicles
that have HID lighting systems. They cannot be used as
an upgrade in conventional headlights.
The Xenon HID bulb requires an electronic ballast and has an
electronic starter for quick ignition."
I never made any claim that the pictures of my car are research or scientific in any way. The point of the comment was to show that the light output is not as bad as you make it out to be.
I've read, watched and evaluated everything that you have posted. Failure to do so would be ignorant! I believe that the glare seen in the video is a result of the refraction made available through the use of such a high temperature kit, rather than the reflector/vector effects shown below.
I do not think that you are making anything up, nor am I saying that you are wrong. My point is regarding the extremety of your concerns for the light output. To reiterate, the halogen fixture is not optimized for HID usage, but the light output will not be horrible in most cases.
I have no concerns regarding your feelings toward HID lighting, but you do have something to gain from this debate.
"There is no knowledge that is not power." ---- this is true
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Below are vector analysis sketches. The reflector shape that I used is intentionally deep to create a larger variance between the types of beams for discussion purposes.
Here is the base sketch or control if you will .... the bulb.
Next is the HID tube placed in the same reflector (exact same reflector used, bulbs and vectors are on tracing paper).
You can see that the direct glare spread here is much larger, but the inner portion is confined by the first reflection vectors. The resulting glare is at a wider angle, but similar in total amount of glare. I believe that this illustrates your point.
Here's the interesting one .... the overlay:
This illustrates something that hasn't been mentioned. From a distance, the bulb will produce a larger glare halo due to the larger resultant glare spread! The other point here is to show that the differances in glare angles, while not insignificant are also not huge. As noted above, this does not account for refraction since that is frequency dependant. I'm only interested in the fixture vs. bulb effects (no need for proof why I'm discluding active HID fixtures also).
Your research is excellent and I'm glad that you presented it. My concern is not regarding the note itself rather how you presented it. The note appears to be in referance to optics (how you presented it) while in it's original context it does not.
My profession is posted in my profile. I am a mechanical engineer and design HVAC systems. I have also been an energy management consultant with my main role centered on lighting and optics. In addition, I have done my own independant research on wave propagation and refraction with my main focus on sound and light.
Thanks for the compliment on the qualitative aspect of my pics!
I am not bothered or offended by anything you've posted and I hope that you are not by mine. As mentioned, I welcome a high-level discussion and have enjoyed exploring this topic. Thank you for allowing me to create the most in depth, time-consuming post that I have ever done! It's rare that I am forced/allowed to deal with such a topic; I love it!
In closing, my inten
#15
12-13-2007 | 09:13 AM
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 883
From: Glen Cove NY
RE: HID Research/Warnings
my exterior LEDs are busted, the last time i got my oil changed the place put the car up on the lift and smashed the rods. I do have a few videos of them running at night. if you'd like those i can get them to you.
#17
12-13-2007 | 03:49 PM
Been Around A Long Time Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,381
From: St. Paul, MN
RE: HID Research/Warnings
falkore, a Sr. Mech. Engineer at 28? That's pretty impressive. What company do you work for in NJ? My dad is a PE and Director of Engineering over here and I draft for him. We do mostly medical jobs with some residential high rise and factories here and there.
#18
12-13-2007 | 04:17 PM
Been Around A Long Time Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,213
From: Wayne, NJ
RE: HID Research/Warnings
Thanks for the props. I work in NYC. I'm designing the HVAC systems for the Jacob Javits Convention Center renovation. I plan to take the exam and get my PE by the end of '08 along with LEED accreditation.
Getting back to the topic, I'm very interested in a reply from ludedude! We can discuss engineering and work related stuff on PM if you'd like finch.
Getting back to the topic, I'm very interested in a reply from ludedude! We can discuss engineering and work related stuff on PM if you'd like finch.
