I am back to trouble-shooting again, checking continuities from starter-cut out to starter solenoid since I'm not getting voltage - no big deal, just doing it without live voltages - the starter cut BLK/WHT goes out to the starter so I will start there.

But I found it was not that bad to get the PGM out - I just took a screwdriver and pushed against the nub that locks the whole grey box with PGM relay inside it, then I slid upwards while pushing against the nub until it released up and out. Perhaps you could also release it down and out - I didn't investigate that. So I have the whole PGM grey box dangling. Tomorrow I will dangle the starter cut and start some connection checking.

I have restored all of the rear wire harnesses back to normal by cutting, splicing, and soldering. Everything in the rear of the car works perfectly now - brake lights, turn signals, lights, back-up, hazard, etc..

A previous technician/mechanic had cut two ground wires off the left-side of the rear harness and put in an extra wire on the right part of the rear harness. His wiring caused me to hold off on one ground so I could realize that it's what makes the turn signals work. But I wonder if I should just ground the other two wires as I suspect that my turn signals should work even if I unhook my hazard from the dash. Currently, I must have my hazard hooked up for my turn signals to work. This seems strange but perhaps I need to look at the circuits and it will explain it. I'm not too worried since at least everything works back there now (as long as the hazard connector is connected at center-dash, and since I've left those two grounds unconnected). I don't know what the previous mechanic had been thinking on that one - just something to giggle about I guess.

 

If you look at the wiring diagram, the hazard switch must be plugged in for the turn signals to work. The wiring/bulbs/relays for the turn signals and hazards are the same, so the hazard switch is critical in how the bulbs are wired.

Looking at my shop manual, I have no idea how the starter-cut relay is wired or what it controls. Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but it looks like the blk/wht wire going to the starter is wired directly to the ignition switch in the wiring diagram, but the manual says to check the starter-cut relay. Something is amiss.

 

Thanks, so all is cool with the turn signals/hazards - I thought that it might be the case as you describe, just checking.

As for the starter-cut relay, I use both my Service manual and a Haynes manual, I believe the Haynes has it correct, that the last stage before the going through the firewall is the starter-cut relay which has a BLK/WHT. One thing for sure though, I bought two new wrenches last night which should make it easy for me to proceed (once I get the little 10mm bolt off of the starter-cut relay bracket) to diagnose if it's shorted or open. I'm not saying it will be a breeze, but I should know pretty soon if I lost that wire somewhere in-between the starter and the starter-cut relay or is some other place acting funny. My biggest problem was trying to get that nut off yesterday, but the overnight WD40 should loosen it a little and it won't be as tough with a smaller ratcheting wrench or 1/4" drive ratchet which I've now bought.

Thanks for the update.

 

I'm not sure what the issue is - wrong wrench-size, or what, but I cannot even get either of my new wrenches on the nut to turn it. I know it has a nub like PGM but I really just want the whole bracket off, so I need to get that nut off.

My ratcheting wrench never gets onto the nut but I cannot figure out why - something might be in the way but I cannot tell what.

I wonder if I can confirm somehow that it really is a 10mm nut. Could it be a 9mm or 8mm or 7mm? Or an 11mm? I just don't know. What a huge setback.

 

I just went out for my 3rd time - this time I tried to push down on the nub and then slide the relay out towards the firewall, a process which should work fine, but apparently, the nub is too hard to push down. I push with my finger on the top - I can't possibly get a screwdriver in there, perhaps some day I'll think of something.

Then I tried with locking pliers for the nut on the bracket approach but the nut is still not turning.

I tried wrenches - various sizes, none of them will go on the nut. There are some wires perhaps I need to move out of the way, but I don't know how to disconnect those large harness connectors. They seem to have multiple locks. If I eventually get that huge wire connection out of the way perhaps I'll be able to reach things better but it will take a long research to figure out how that connector works. It's hard to see how it works in that environment.

I don't know if there is a a removal procedure in the service manual, so far, I haven't seen one.

 

I might try to stiffen my finger by taping something to it, then push on the nub and try to slide it off.

 

I just designed custom fingertips for each of my pointer and middle fingers' tips. I tried and tried and I still can't get the relay to slide at all.

I guess I can't tell easily enough where to push with my fingertips, and I even tried a screwdriver to work the relay out by prying. Neither method worked.

So I compared the size of the 10mm screws I took off the under-dash fuse box, to get it off. The nut I'm trying to take off looks smaller than those screws. Could it be 9mm? 8mm? Does the Honda manual have this screw listed somewhere? I may have to buy two or three more ratcheting wrenches but I don't really know which sizes.

 

Sorry I have not been on this site much lately, but what is it the the car is doing and/or not doing when you are trying to start it? I did not read through all the posts as I am a slow reader, but I did notice that you have a manual transmission. Is it cranking but not starting? Please keep posts short and concise.

Not you can set the e-brake, put it in neutral (very important), unplug the small single wire from the starter, turn the key to the run position and leave it there, take a wire and contact the pos terminal on the battery on one end and the other end of the wire hold it to the small tab on the starter where the small single wire was removed. If the car is in neutral and you have the emergency brake set the car should crank over and possibly even start. By doing this you are essentially doing a critical diagnostic procedure, as it bypasses a bunch of circuits. It is does not start you now know what it does not have to do with, if it does start then too you know it is in the circuits that were bypassed.

Also note, if you have an engine code please post it. If you do not have one and the car is not starting it can take upwards of 20 seconds or more of continual cranking for a code to be set.

 

Several weeks ago, I installed a remote starter from Autozone - the starter turns over fine. But the fuel pump does not run. There are numerous wires I've had to splice and now the rear of the car is fine. I am now working on the mid-section (where the fuel sender/pump are), and the front dash.

I got the connector off today. I will first start continuity checks, then later, I will start hooking up the battery. I realize that I can substitute an entire set of starter circuitry but I would like to analyze the PGM-FI and ECU to make sure they did not get bitten into by the animals.

I guess I'm not having any troubles at this point. I don't think the car not starting is due to diagnostic codes - it's mostly the fuel pump. I may have to pull the gas tank and check for damage there.

In the meantime, I will go to Autozone, and pick up a shorted stub so I can check engine codes - I have never plugged into that DTC - but shouldn't be too tough once I read over the procedure.

 

Also note that if it cranks and does not start the following: 1. You have confirmed fuel is being delivered to the fuel rail, 2. You have confirmed there is spark. If 1 is a yes and 2 is a no then check the tach signal (weak or no signal usually means ignitor) or simple swap out the ignitor assembly with a known good used one as they are not cheap and I don't recommend an aftermarket one. I have a bunch of Honda ones kicking around. I am not sure why you are after the starter cut off relay at this point? If is does not crank at all, put the emergency brake on, put the car in neutral, disconnect the clutch pedal switch, jumper the harness side of that connector and see if it starts. If so it is the switch.

How many miles on your car? If the electrical portion of the ignition switch has not been replaced it is worth doing it anyway. If you are experiencing the car cranking, starting for a moment and then you let go of the key, it is likely the switch.