thanks for you help yall.
i ran some tests.
parasitic draw test: 10 millivolts
min reading on battery while starting: 10.4 v
battery w/ alternator running: 14+ v

when i went out this time, it labored but then started. but when i went to hit the gas to rev the engine, it sputtered and died. i tried starting it again, it struggled (less) and turned over. i revved it and drove it around the block a few times. everything was working. came home and tried starting it again and it did so without a problem.

can anyone help me troubleshoot why it wouldn't start at all the other day? i feel like i've been chasing a gremlin for the last six months. its always something with the electrical (first the battery, then the starter, then the alternator). granted it's an older car (98/223k) and those things break. when it wouldn't start the other day it was right before a hurricane hit, so not ideal. do signs point to the starter? maybe its starting to die (again)?

one other thing: when it is just sitting and idling the idle sometimes sounds like it has a hiccup or misses a beat. not sure if that's useful information.

 

1) A battery being new doesn’t mean it’s good (same with your alternator and starter, for that matter) and a bad battery can be very funny in its performance. I’ve seen bad batteries pass in depth analysis using specialty machines such as the GR8, yet when the battery was replaced, the related issue was fixed.

There’s many reasons why a new battery can be bad, ranging from manufacturing defects to sitting on the shelf too long. The sides of the battery case being bulged out or the smell of hydrogen gas (rotten eggs) especially after driving are both sure indicators of at least 1 burst cell and require battery replacement.

2) Verify the battery you have is the correct size and rating. Unless you’re the original owner and know for certain it’s got the right battery, anyone before you could’ve walked into a store and bought a battery without stopping to consider it’s the correct one. The owners manual should have the required battery information.

3) Parasitic draw can only be measured accurately using amperage, not voltage. You need to make sure the battery is fully charged (trickle charger is best) then install an ammeter in series between the negative cable and battery. Then cycle everything on and off except starting the engine. Roll all the windows up and down, turn the radio/HVAC on and off, open and close every door and the trunk/rear hatch.

Remove the key and Allow at least 45 minutes for modules to power down, then check the reading - at or below 25mA is normal. If it’s above that, start pulling fuses from the engine bay fuse box (leave them out) until the draw drops. When it does, that’s the problem circuit and further diagnosis on the components it powers is required.

 

I bought the new battery 6 months ago. It is the correct battery for the vehicle. It looks fine (no bulges, bad smells). I ran the minimum voltage on starting test to see if there was a bad cell. It doesn't seem like it. I mistakenly wrote volts on the parasitic draw tests that's amperage.

I replaced the fuel lines a month ago because they were very corroded but I didn't clean the fuel rail or injectors. Could that maybe be why it didn't start? Or perhaps the fuel pump is starting to go bad? I'm not sure if either one of those could cause a non-start.

Trying to determine if I should a) have the battery checked b) troubleshoot the starter or c) focus on the fuel system.

 

If I’m understanding correctly, you’re concerned about the no crank or slow/labored crank due to a battery that’s not keeping a charge. So the area of focus needs to be the battery, cables and starting/charging system.

A lack of fuel supply (for whatever reason) isn’t going to affect the cranking speed - it’s an issue of amperage flow from the battery to/from the starter. The fact that a booster pack will give it enough to crank and start indicates a bad battery, loose battery cable connections (at the battery, starter and ground points), high resistance in the cables, or high resistance in the starter solenoid or motor.

Make sure the battery is fully charged. Disable DRL’s (if equipped) and start the engine, then pull the fuel pump relay or fuse and allow the engine to die. This will prevent starting so you can do some mild extended cranking and perform drop tests without damaging the starter.

Perform voltage drop tests during cranking on:

1) Battery positive cable from battery terminal to starter solenoid.
2) Starter solenoid B+ terminal to starter motor terminal.
3) Starter motor solenoid terminal to motor case/ground.
4) Starter motor case/ground to battery negative terminal.

All components except the motor itself should drop less than 0.3 volts. The motor should be dropping at least 11.5 volts.

If these tests check out ok, or if during these tests the battery dies (which it shouldn’t as you’ll only be cranking long enough to get a stable reading), replace the battery.

 

Thanks for your help Gumby.
I'm back at square one. The car isn't starting. The jump box still doesn't help.
The current voltage on the battery is 12.54v
Would you suggest the same approach (performing the drop tests)? Should I take the battery somewhere and get it tested since I can only test the volts on it?

 

The 12.6 volts on a static battery can be misleading, because you can build up a surface charge. Try measuring the battery voltage while you have an assistant try to start the vehicle, so you have a load on the battery.

 

I went out to test it and it started up.
The min reading on the battery while starting was 10.2v
The reading while running is 14.3v
And with load on the alternator (ac, radio, lights) 14.2v

How can a troubleshoot the sometimes starting, sometimes not condition?

 

Looks like your battery and alternator are good.
Have you done a test on the starter? Are you sure it's not something else preventing you from starting the car like a ignition switch going bad.
From the looks of thing you need to be looking at your starter due to a slow or no crank. It could be sticking. How old is the starter.

 

The hit and miss cranking is a classic indicator of a bad battery, loose connection, or starter problem.

I understand it can be difficult to believe a new battery is bad, but I strongly recommend getting it tested. Every situation is different because there’s several ways for a battery to fail and several factors that contribute to the failure and how the battery performs as a result. If you’re not limited to this car for transportation, take the battery to 2 or 3 places that test and see what the results are.

Or, If you’re inclined to do so, home battery load testers are available for reasonably cheap (less than $50). The one I use at work let’s me set the CCA anywhere from 300 - 999 to test. It’s part genuine load tester in that it uses a kind of heating element (I’m hesitant to call it a carbon pile because I don’t know what it actually is) to put a load on the battery while a logic chip measures and displays the voltage. It’s not the most useful tester, but what I like about it is that I can do repeated load testing with about 1 minute breaks to allow the element to cool. The bad batteries tend to reveal themselves after the 2nd or 3rd load test.

Rule out loose connections by wiggle testing the cables to and from the starter while a helper turns the key to crank.

Regarding the starter - inside the solenoid is a large copper or brass disc. When the key is turned to crank and the solenoid engages, the disc is what contacts the battery and motor terminals to allow current flow. As the disc is engaged/disengaged, it rotates, and sometimes carbon soot can build up on the disc in certain areas, creating high resistance. When the terminals are making contact on the sooty areas, slow and no crank conditions are present; but when the terminals are making contact on the clean areas, normal cranking resumes.

The same can be true for the brush contacts on the motor armature. There can also be 1 or 2 commutator bars (where the brushes make contact on the armature) that are damaged and only cause trouble when the armature happens to stop rotating at that point.

These problems can be discovered with thorough bench testing and the use of a scope, otherwise the motor would need to be disassembled for inspection. However, since the starter’s performance is dependent on the battery and cables, those should first be definitively ruled out.

 

Thank you all for yr help.
I just had the battery checked. It is good.
The starter was replaced in March 2020, so that unit is pretty new.
With the ignition switch, when I click it into II all the accessories come on without problem.

It seems like the possible theories are 1) bad starter 2) bad connection.
Below are pics of the bat, starter, and the bat ground cable. Also including a pic of a wire (looks like a ground of some kind) on the driver's side that is exposed and a little frayed.

Any ideas for next area to test or should I have someone examine the starter?




ground