General maintenance questions/thoughts
#11
06-09-2009 | 11:43 PM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,381
From: St. Paul, MN
1) Castrol GTX is good oil. Yours has a maintenance minder, right? I've had oil analysis done on my Civic when the minder said 10% (GTX 5w-20). Blackstone said I could have left it in awhile longer. That tells me that Honda's maintenance minder does a good job.
That's good to know. However, I'm thinking of possibly changing to Mobil One full synthetic. Do you think I could leave that in for about 8K?
I would say 8k on Mobil1 is possible, but if you're going to go that long I'd at least get an oil analysis done. I use Mobil1 and do 5k changes with a Mobil1 filter as well. Also, longer intervals will burn/use more oil over time, so check the oil every 2k miles or so.
2) I refuse to believe that ATF lasts 60k miles. I'd change it at maybe 30k intervals. Changing it on that interval, maybe you just do a single drain/fill. Only do multiple drail/fills if it comes out dirty.
Yeah, I hear ya, so I'm thinking about changing the trans fluid at 35K; however, I will not be doing it. The Honda dealership in my area quoted me $100, but I think my trusty mechanic may do it for less. I kinda want to go with the dealership, though.
Have you changed engine oil before? Transmission fluid is just as easy, see my comment below.
3) I've used non-Honda brake fluid. Castrol LMA, Pentosin DOT4, or ATE Blue depending on where I buy it. Usually a liter by the time I flush all 4 corners.
I'm definitely going to the dealership/mechanic for this within the month. I never done this and surely don't want to monkey around with the brakes!
A lot of people are nervous to work on brakes, but they are very simple devices in theory, you don't even have to disassemble anything, just suck out the old fluid, refill, bleed and go. There are self bleeder devices that will not allow air to be sucked back so it's nearly impossible to screw up. They're less than $10.
4) My 2003 says the spark plugs go 110k miles.
Roger that!
I say it depends on the kind and price of plugs. Some plugs are like $25/ea, whereas plugs for my car are around $1.50/ea, so why no replace them yearly?
5) Factory-fill coolant lasts a long time. Once you've changed it, the interval is shorter but still not yearly.
I will also be doing this within in a month, as the car is a 2006.
Also fairly easy, just drain/refill for now, no need to worry about flushing a 3 year old car.
Dealer #1 is BS'ing you on tranny capacity, there is no physical way it can hold 13-15 qts. of fluid, impossible. It is true that it won't drain completely, as the torque converter holds some fluid and there are nooks and crannies. Like I said, if you can change oil, you can change tranny fluid. I bet that $129 price doesn't include 9 qts. to completely refresh the fluid, which if you did it yourself, you would still save money and replace more fluid than the delaership is offering. The tranny holds 3 qts. TOTAL.
PS - Power flushing is bad, and every time someone asks a dealer they come back saying Honda doesn't recommend it because they can reverse flow and permanently damage parts and/or dislodge larger particles that can clog passages.
I don't see injector maintenance as necessary unless they are obvious symptons they are not spraying correctly. As long as you use good fuel, there shouldn't be any issues.
Keep in mind, the dealer needs to make money so they will tell you you need to do a bunch of stuff that you really don't need to do.
That's good to know. However, I'm thinking of possibly changing to Mobil One full synthetic. Do you think I could leave that in for about 8K?
I would say 8k on Mobil1 is possible, but if you're going to go that long I'd at least get an oil analysis done. I use Mobil1 and do 5k changes with a Mobil1 filter as well. Also, longer intervals will burn/use more oil over time, so check the oil every 2k miles or so.
2) I refuse to believe that ATF lasts 60k miles. I'd change it at maybe 30k intervals. Changing it on that interval, maybe you just do a single drain/fill. Only do multiple drail/fills if it comes out dirty.
Yeah, I hear ya, so I'm thinking about changing the trans fluid at 35K; however, I will not be doing it. The Honda dealership in my area quoted me $100, but I think my trusty mechanic may do it for less. I kinda want to go with the dealership, though.
Have you changed engine oil before? Transmission fluid is just as easy, see my comment below.
3) I've used non-Honda brake fluid. Castrol LMA, Pentosin DOT4, or ATE Blue depending on where I buy it. Usually a liter by the time I flush all 4 corners.
I'm definitely going to the dealership/mechanic for this within the month. I never done this and surely don't want to monkey around with the brakes!
A lot of people are nervous to work on brakes, but they are very simple devices in theory, you don't even have to disassemble anything, just suck out the old fluid, refill, bleed and go. There are self bleeder devices that will not allow air to be sucked back so it's nearly impossible to screw up. They're less than $10.
4) My 2003 says the spark plugs go 110k miles.
Roger that!
I say it depends on the kind and price of plugs. Some plugs are like $25/ea, whereas plugs for my car are around $1.50/ea, so why no replace them yearly?
5) Factory-fill coolant lasts a long time. Once you've changed it, the interval is shorter but still not yearly.
I will also be doing this within in a month, as the car is a 2006.
Also fairly easy, just drain/refill for now, no need to worry about flushing a 3 year old car.
Called two Honda dealerships to inquire about service costs and maintenance intervals. Here's what they had to say:
Dealership #1
Transmission fluid replacment: $129 for standard fluid exchange. The service guy said it's not a full blown fluid replacement as they no longer utilize the "power machine" that would force all of the fluid out, which is about 13 to 15 qts of fluid. He said something about the machine possibly damaging the transmission, which they would be liable for. He stated that Honda America had informed them that doing a standard flush is okay even though you're only able to drain about 3 quarts of oil this way. Hmm, so that leaves A LOT of dirty fluid in there. Tech stated that there is a non-power machine that which can drain all the fluid out as well and is the best way to go, but that he didn't know who may have one. Tech stated that 30K intervals are what would be best.
Brakes: $79.00 for fluid replacement. Tech stated that every three years is a good interval.
Coolant: $89.00. Said that places that only have a "full flush" service are full of it as that is only needed if the original coolant is somehow contaminated, which mine is not. He stated that 3 year intervals are recommened, but that 4 years is okay. Tech went on to explain why the full flush is not needed and why it is something that they don't really do unless the coolant is "contaminated."
Fuel injector maintenance: Tech stated to have these cleaned out at 45K. Price not addressed.
Spark plugs and valve adjustment: Tech stated to replace plugs at 105K and adjust valves at this point. Prices not addressed.
Dealership #2
Transmission fluid replacement: $225 as the tech stated they do a full fluid flush with a "power" machine that will get all the old/dirty fluid out. Stated that they add some additive that will remove sludge and other contaminants out. Tech stated that he hadn't heard of the maching damaging the transmission, but stated that doing the flush on a high mileage car that never had a full flush may cause issues. Tech recommened that the transmission be flushed at 30k and every 30K thereafter.
Brakes: $90.00 to have the fluid replaced. Also recommended to have fluid replaced every 3 years.
Coolant: $169.00 as they do a "full flush" and stated that it should be done every three years.
I didn't talk to these guys about spark plugs or valve adjustments.
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I think the power flush of the transmission is the way to go, but I will be going to DEALER #1 for the rest of the stuff, as their prices are more reasonable. Plus, I got the feeling that DEALER #2 was trying to get the most out of it's customers money-wise.
Dealership #1
Transmission fluid replacment: $129 for standard fluid exchange. The service guy said it's not a full blown fluid replacement as they no longer utilize the "power machine" that would force all of the fluid out, which is about 13 to 15 qts of fluid. He said something about the machine possibly damaging the transmission, which they would be liable for. He stated that Honda America had informed them that doing a standard flush is okay even though you're only able to drain about 3 quarts of oil this way. Hmm, so that leaves A LOT of dirty fluid in there. Tech stated that there is a non-power machine that which can drain all the fluid out as well and is the best way to go, but that he didn't know who may have one. Tech stated that 30K intervals are what would be best.
Brakes: $79.00 for fluid replacement. Tech stated that every three years is a good interval.
Coolant: $89.00. Said that places that only have a "full flush" service are full of it as that is only needed if the original coolant is somehow contaminated, which mine is not. He stated that 3 year intervals are recommened, but that 4 years is okay. Tech went on to explain why the full flush is not needed and why it is something that they don't really do unless the coolant is "contaminated."
Fuel injector maintenance: Tech stated to have these cleaned out at 45K. Price not addressed.
Spark plugs and valve adjustment: Tech stated to replace plugs at 105K and adjust valves at this point. Prices not addressed.
Dealership #2
Transmission fluid replacement: $225 as the tech stated they do a full fluid flush with a "power" machine that will get all the old/dirty fluid out. Stated that they add some additive that will remove sludge and other contaminants out. Tech stated that he hadn't heard of the maching damaging the transmission, but stated that doing the flush on a high mileage car that never had a full flush may cause issues. Tech recommened that the transmission be flushed at 30k and every 30K thereafter.
Brakes: $90.00 to have the fluid replaced. Also recommended to have fluid replaced every 3 years.
Coolant: $169.00 as they do a "full flush" and stated that it should be done every three years.
I didn't talk to these guys about spark plugs or valve adjustments.
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I think the power flush of the transmission is the way to go, but I will be going to DEALER #1 for the rest of the stuff, as their prices are more reasonable. Plus, I got the feeling that DEALER #2 was trying to get the most out of it's customers money-wise.
PS - Power flushing is bad, and every time someone asks a dealer they come back saying Honda doesn't recommend it because they can reverse flow and permanently damage parts and/or dislodge larger particles that can clog passages.
I don't see injector maintenance as necessary unless they are obvious symptons they are not spraying correctly. As long as you use good fuel, there shouldn't be any issues.
Keep in mind, the dealer needs to make money so they will tell you you need to do a bunch of stuff that you really don't need to do.
#12
06-10-2009 | 12:37 AM
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From: California
Thanks for the feedback. And, now, I'm wondering if I misheard what the techs said about tranny capacity. I might be wrong, so I'll check in with them again. And, yep, the first dealership tech did say that power flushing could do some damage and something about the reverse flow you stated, which is why the don't do this anymore; however, the tech at the second dealership said that the power flush only goes one way and that reverse flow wasn't possible.
Well, maybe I should learn how to do additional maintenance on my own, but I'm hesitant to do so. And, yes, I do change my own oil, which seems way easier than doing the brakes. Tranny, I may do...maybe.
What manuals/reference material do you suggest?
As for "good fuel," 87 ARCO gas probably doesn't fall under that category, huh? Maybe, I should just stick with Chevron or Shell?
Well, maybe I should learn how to do additional maintenance on my own, but I'm hesitant to do so. And, yes, I do change my own oil, which seems way easier than doing the brakes. Tranny, I may do...maybe.
What manuals/reference material do you suggest?
As for "good fuel," 87 ARCO gas probably doesn't fall under that category, huh? Maybe, I should just stick with Chevron or Shell?
Last edited by HondaAficionado; 06-10-2009 at 12:43 AM.
#13
06-10-2009 | 02:05 AM
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 156
Dude, seriously, do your own tranny fluid...it's identical to changing your oil but without the hassle of a filter. Use Honda ATF. Drain/fill/drive. Repeat 3X. Then count the money you just saved. Yes, it's that easy.
BTW, I don't know what part of Cali you are in, but if you have a Les Schwab tire center nearby, they charged $50 for a brake fluid flush/fill and had it done in about 1/2 an hour. They do pretty good work, IMHO.
BTW, I don't know what part of Cali you are in, but if you have a Les Schwab tire center nearby, they charged $50 for a brake fluid flush/fill and had it done in about 1/2 an hour. They do pretty good work, IMHO.
#14
06-10-2009 | 07:41 AM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 18,398
From: Wisconsin
When you change tranny oil, you only drain about 1/3 to 1/2 of the total. My 98 had a total capacity of about 7 quarts while less than 3 drained out. My 2003 is a manual, so I don't know the capacity right now.
The 13-15 quarts is what you USE when you flush fluid through the tranny. That's not the inventory inside the tranny at any time. You fill & drain through the coolant hoses while the tranny is running, so you kinda pour the fluid through. You do this until clean new fluid comes OUT, so you waste some.
I would do the tranny at dealer #1, or drain/fill it yourself. Two reasons are the power-flushing and the "additive".
The 13-15 quarts is what you USE when you flush fluid through the tranny. That's not the inventory inside the tranny at any time. You fill & drain through the coolant hoses while the tranny is running, so you kinda pour the fluid through. You do this until clean new fluid comes OUT, so you waste some.
I would do the tranny at dealer #1, or drain/fill it yourself. Two reasons are the power-flushing and the "additive".
#15
06-10-2009 | 11:41 AM
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After doing a bit o' more research, I guess it is that simple to do the transmission fluid change. I've just never done this before and was hesitant to do so, as I thought it was going to more technical, guess not.
And for the tranny capacity, I looked in the manual (duh!) and it stated a total capacity of 6 point something quarts. I guess the tech was talking about how much total fluid was going to be needed to do the drain and flush.
And for the tranny capacity, I looked in the manual (duh!) and it stated a total capacity of 6 point something quarts. I guess the tech was talking about how much total fluid was going to be needed to do the drain and flush.
Last edited by HondaAficionado; 06-10-2009 at 11:45 AM.
#16
06-10-2009 | 11:44 AM
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From: California
When you change tranny oil, you only drain about 1/3 to 1/2 of the total. My 98 had a total capacity of about 7 quarts while less than 3 drained out. My 2003 is a manual, so I don't know the capacity right now.
The 13-15 quarts is what you USE when you flush fluid through the tranny. That's not the inventory inside the tranny at any time. You fill & drain through the coolant hoses while the tranny is running, so you kinda pour the fluid through. You do this until clean new fluid comes OUT, so you waste some.
I would do the tranny at dealer #1, or drain/fill it yourself. Two reasons are the power-flushing and the "additive".
The 13-15 quarts is what you USE when you flush fluid through the tranny. That's not the inventory inside the tranny at any time. You fill & drain through the coolant hoses while the tranny is running, so you kinda pour the fluid through. You do this until clean new fluid comes OUT, so you waste some.
I would do the tranny at dealer #1, or drain/fill it yourself. Two reasons are the power-flushing and the "additive".
#17
06-10-2009 | 12:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,322
From: Brandon, MS
^ He was talking about when they do the power flush. When you drain & refill it is as simple as drain through the plug and refill through the dipstick hole.
Seriously, brakes are MUCH easier than you would expect. I'm sure dealerships love it when people call them for this job. All they have to do is remove the wheels, suck out the old fluid, add new, and bleed. It will take them maybe 15 minutes of actual work and they probably charge you for an hour.
It is sooo simple. All you do is suck out the old fluid with a turkey baster, refill with new fluid, then remove each wheel and bleed through the bleed valve until clean fluid comes out. You dont even need any special tools if you have someone that can sit in the car and pump the brakes for you while you open the bleed valve. You just got to be sure you keep enough brake fluid in the reservoir so it doesn't go dry while you are bleeding or you will have to start over. And don't get brake fluid on anything (it will remove paint haha) Now I am making it sound more complicated than it really is..... once you do it yourself, you will realize why we say it is so easy.
Seriously, brakes are MUCH easier than you would expect. I'm sure dealerships love it when people call them for this job. All they have to do is remove the wheels, suck out the old fluid, add new, and bleed. It will take them maybe 15 minutes of actual work and they probably charge you for an hour.
It is sooo simple. All you do is suck out the old fluid with a turkey baster, refill with new fluid, then remove each wheel and bleed through the bleed valve until clean fluid comes out. You dont even need any special tools if you have someone that can sit in the car and pump the brakes for you while you open the bleed valve. You just got to be sure you keep enough brake fluid in the reservoir so it doesn't go dry while you are bleeding or you will have to start over. And don't get brake fluid on anything (it will remove paint haha) Now I am making it sound more complicated than it really is..... once you do it yourself, you will realize why we say it is so easy.
#18
06-10-2009 | 12:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,322
From: Brandon, MS
What kind of plugs are you running? I assume not NGK double plats (OEM for my 2000 LX) since the cheapest I have found them was around $8 a pop.
#19
06-10-2009 | 01:58 PM
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From: California
ONE LAST QUESTION FOR 00AccorLX5spd
^ He was talking about when they do the power flush. When you drain & refill it is as simple as drain through the plug and refill through the dipstick hole.
Seriously, brakes are MUCH easier than you would expect. I'm sure dealerships love it when people call them for this job. All they have to do is remove the wheels, suck out the old fluid, add new, and bleed. It will take them maybe 15 minutes of actual work and they probably charge you for an hour.
It is sooo simple. All you do is suck out the old fluid with a turkey baster, refill with new fluid, then remove each wheel and bleed through the bleed valve until clean fluid comes out. You dont even need any special tools if you have someone that can sit in the car and pump the brakes for you while you open the bleed valve. You just got to be sure you keep enough brake fluid in the reservoir so it doesn't go dry while you are bleeding or you will have to start over. And don't get brake fluid on anything (it will remove paint haha) Now I am making it sound more complicated than it really is..... once you do it yourself, you will realize why we say it is so easy.
Seriously, brakes are MUCH easier than you would expect. I'm sure dealerships love it when people call them for this job. All they have to do is remove the wheels, suck out the old fluid, add new, and bleed. It will take them maybe 15 minutes of actual work and they probably charge you for an hour.
It is sooo simple. All you do is suck out the old fluid with a turkey baster, refill with new fluid, then remove each wheel and bleed through the bleed valve until clean fluid comes out. You dont even need any special tools if you have someone that can sit in the car and pump the brakes for you while you open the bleed valve. You just got to be sure you keep enough brake fluid in the reservoir so it doesn't go dry while you are bleeding or you will have to start over. And don't get brake fluid on anything (it will remove paint haha) Now I am making it sound more complicated than it really is..... once you do it yourself, you will realize why we say it is so easy.
Seriously, I was very weary of somehow screwing up the system by getting in air or somehow degrading the braking power of the car by monkeying around with the brakes. Now, though, I think I'll be able to manage this myself.
So, does the dealership do it the same way? Or are they able to do a better job of FLUSHING all the old oil out or something. Basically, is there something special that they do on this service that can not be replicated at home?
Last edited by HondaAficionado; 06-10-2009 at 02:29 PM.
#20
06-10-2009 | 02:08 PM
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From: California
Response to jim blake
When you change tranny oil, you only drain about 1/3 to 1/2 of the total. My 98 had a total capacity of about 7 quarts while less than 3 drained out. My 2003 is a manual, so I don't know the capacity right now.
The 13-15 quarts is what you USE when you flush fluid through the tranny. That's not the inventory inside the tranny at any time. You fill & drain through the coolant hoses while the tranny is running, so you kinda pour the fluid through. You do this until clean new fluid comes OUT, so you waste some.
I would do the tranny at dealer #1, or drain/fill it yourself. Two reasons are the power-flushing and the "additive".
The 13-15 quarts is what you USE when you flush fluid through the tranny. That's not the inventory inside the tranny at any time. You fill & drain through the coolant hoses while the tranny is running, so you kinda pour the fluid through. You do this until clean new fluid comes OUT, so you waste some.
I would do the tranny at dealer #1, or drain/fill it yourself. Two reasons are the power-flushing and the "additive".
So, when I do the drain and fill process only about 3 qts of fluid will come out when I drain it, right? So, then, I'll put in 3 qts of new fluid (maybe less so I don't overfill, right?). I then drive it around the block to get the new fluid circulating and repeat the process two more times, which is why I need 3 qts of the new oil. And the biggest danger here is over-filling, right?
Last edited by HondaAficionado; 06-10-2009 at 02:30 PM.