that sounds like the most solid plan from this point, im just a bit aggitated
after having replaced half the sensors, only to find the diagnostics really just cost me more money.
i believe the CYP is in the distro, and when the distro was rotated nothing happened to the timing. //
since the CYP isnt effecting the ignition, i suppose the last reasonable thing to check will be replacing
the ECU. if anyone else has any other crazy ideas send em up. note that a million things have been tried
thanks all for the help [8D][8D]xx

 

I know that you are upset,, and i am sorry for your dilemma.. But you got to keep in mind that nobody here gets paid , this is all voluntary and if anyone senses that you are being unappreciative everyone will shy away and then you will not get any replies for sure ..

Just for the hell of it ,,, doublecheck the cam timing one more time

And,,,,, i will ask you for the last time,,,

when did this issue first happen?? The more background you can give, the easier it will make it for us to understand ...

 

my apologies :x, this was confusing for almost everyone that's seen the car.
if the distributor effects timing, after service-connect was jumped, and the bolts were loosened
from the distributor, and it was rotated 30 degrees to either side, it should have had some effect
on the ignition timing, correct? this is what led me to discover that the two sensors
CKP and TDC are located behind the balance shaft gear, underneath the harmonic balancer.
according to the honda dealership mechanic i spoke with, there is no adjustment of ignition timing
whatsoever on this car. it can be checked, however it cannot be changed.

the problem has been continuous. when i first bought the car there were problems, the first one
i noticed was the throttle position sensor was disconnected, and the check-engine light has also been
on since the car was purchased. the timing belt was off by a notch, and the o2 sensor was bad.
all of those have been fixed since and now the check-engine light isnt on. the timing could definitely
have been this bad the entire time. I know that it's a longshot but i think i have an idea.
When the car was cold (a few times) the timing was correct, heated up, and swung way out(30+degrees)
and didnt come back in. Im gonna try shoving the ECU i have in the freezer , getting it nice and cold , and
putting it back in the car and running it. The honda mechanic said personally, after all the tests we've run
and **** we've replaced, that it could only be the ECU, if it wasnt that he couldnt fix it at all. If it's not this,
it's probably gonna end up being a wire in the wire harness going to the ecu, and i dont imagine i have enough
money to pay a mechanic to isolate that one :].

 

it seems like you are typing responces and not listening to the questions.

is your timing belt installed like this?



if so, check and adjust idle speed. otherwise ignition timing will never be on.

how is the idle erractic? you'll need to fix the idle problem so you can begin to check ign. timing. i've seen weak ign. coils causing a problem under load. how is the spark?(color, can it jump a decent sized gap?(1/4"? 1/2"?)

can you isolate which cylinder is misfiring? do a quick power balance test. if you have rpm meter measure the rpm drop of each cylinder when you disconnecteach spark plug wire. they should be relatively even drops. (use the tach on the car if you have to, you should be able to feel the power drop anyway)



distributor movement does affect base ignition timing.

fully warm up the car.
start the car.
check the idle speed and adjust if necessary(700rpm +/- 50 rpm).
short the scs connector.

connect a timing light to cylinder number 1 ign. wire(cyl 1 is closest to the timing belt)
check timing:

adjust if possible


if you can't get it to spec:

15° ± 2° BTDC (RED) at 700 ± 50 rpm with shift lever

in neutral position (A/T: or position) and electrical

systems turned off.

then replace the pcm.

 

(i started that responce 1/2 hour ago and didn't see the new info [8D])

 

Rotating the distributor does not adjust timing +/- 30 deg. It's closer to +/- 2 deg. I recently replaced my timing belt after it jumped 3 teeth so it's fairly fresh in my mind to time it. Once the belts are aligned and you're sure you have fuel and spark it should start even if its slightly out of time. Then you retard/advance with the distributor to get the pointer in the middle of the red marks. Even with the car warmed up it should not get 30 deg. out of time, and if it did it wouldn't run. The 3 teeth I jumped is not even close to 30 deg. and it wouldn't run. I was almost ready to part the Honda and get a new car when this happened to because I couldn't figure out the problem. If you really want to you could go and get a salvaged ECU for ~$80 and see if it will run the car in time and then if it does, keep it, if not, return it.

 

Obviously the cars starts and runs, so mechanical timing must be correct or close to it. Are you using a timing light? Does the timing seem to jump around? The ECU will adjust ignition timing, and if you have any misfires the timing will be changing as you watch it with the light; it won't be able to be set until you have corrected the misfiring.

If you want to freeze the ECU to test it, just get some freeze spray (canned air) from an electronics store so you don't have to remove it from the car. You can start the car and spray down the ECU and see if the problem goes away. I doubt it.

 

Just because this hasn't been mentioned or asked I'm going to throw it out there, I know it's probably not the base issue but it's not doing any favors if it's present. Are you using NGK spark plugs?

 

I know NGK is the preferred brand, but I have used Autolite, Autolite Platinums and Champion plugs with no issues. I guess as long as their not any of the mutant Bosch four prong yytrium-iridium-platinum-diamond-carbon fiber plugs they shouldn't be an issue with at least getting the car timed.

 

With plugs frying coils, NGK and Denso are the only ones recommended.