Hi all again. I just did a head job on a 2001 Accord 2.3l Vtec. I got this car with the head gasket already blown. Ordered the standard rebuild kit, including rings and bottom end bearings, etc. Put the thing back together and she ran great with the exception of a fluctuating idle, which was corrected with an IACV clean out.

However, after a good piston ring break in, the car had trouble re-starting. Found the oil lightly starting to milkshake and coolant in the cylinders. It did Not overheat whatsoever. Crap. Off with the head again, rechecked the head at the machine shop again, rechecked the block deck, grabbed another new head gasket and reassembled, using the torque sequence, etc, from the Service Manual. (22 ft lbs followed by 180 degrees, which I chose to do in (2) 90 degree sequences, as I have heard this to be the most efficient). Also, these are Not new head bolts, so the third 90 degree turn was not called for. The bolts are in excellent condition and show no signs of being stretched or damaged.

This time however, the oil milkshaked immediately, like within two minutes of startup, almost like I had a coolant hose going directly into the oil pan! After doing over a hundred Honda head jobs, mainly late 80's/early 90's and this is only my second 2.3, I have never had a head gasket job fail before, and Twice at that!

I dumped the oil and with the pan plug still off I pressurized the cooling system to see if I could get coolant going into the pan. Nothing. Put some spare good used oil back in and fired it up. Instant milkshake again.

Any ideas anyone??? Is there any other way for coolant to dump into the oil besides past the head gasket on these Vtecs? I wouldn't think the block cracked somehow. Also, this time there is No coolant leaking into the cylinders, and the compression is 150 straight across.

I am stumped, lol. Appreciate any guidance here. Thank You !

 

First head gasket job I did on a Mitsubishi 4-cyl resulted in failure. I check head for warpage and thought it was OK. I had the head rebuilt and shaved perfectly flat and achieved success. Since then I have head shaved, along w/ valves reseated, stem seals, crack inspection. I'm batting 100 since then, w/ 5 additional head gaskets installed w/o problems.

Any chance gasket was installed wrong? It looks to be pretty obvious, but I managed to screw up a Subaru head gasket by installing incorrectly.

Shop manual says to turn bolts 180 degrees after initial torquing to 22 ft-lbs, not in two steps. The 180 degree turn practically eliminates risk of inadequate bolt tension.

What brand of head gasket did you use? I've had good results w/ Felpro, and have heard of problems w/ some ebay head gaskets (carbon fiber based).

good luck

 

lol. I just did Two Eclipse 2.0 head jobs a week apart, perfectly.

I did indeed have the head shaved, crack checked, valves done, etc. at the machine shop.

A chance I installed the gasket wrong? Well, of course there is always a chance, but very slight as I always Triple check that for Every head job, just to give myself the best success odds. Still, perhaps I did. I have indeed placed them on wrong before, but then caught my error on the 2nd or 3rd check. Perhaps this one needed a forth? I could have been rock'in to hard to Crazy Train. (Ozzies fault!)

As for the gasket, it was a Felpro, which I inspected and it looked good. (I have had defective ones before, so I check carefully).

As for the 180 degrees, yes, that's what the manual says. However, I have had two machine shops tell be to break that into the two 90's. In my head, it should work the same. But ... perhaps that is problem ... this Filipexican thought process of mine, lol.

Well, thanks for your insights. I will re-think and re-check my torque process.

Be Well

 

Do you run straight water at first? or coolant mix? I always run water at first,in case of leaks,or something like this.Then I drain,mix and fill a burp the system.

Good Luck with whatever is causing the shakes!

 

Ya know, years ago I used to do exactly that; Water first in case of leaks. But as my confidence in my work grew, (much from working on jets for the Navy), motors became quite easy and my techniques polished. Example, I acquired several size drip pans as to not waste any coolant should I spring a leak, which I 'expect' to have 'here and there'. This saves me time = $$$.

Although I can agree with 'water first' as a wise precaution, in this particular case, either way the oil is still a smoothie!

Be well, and Thank You for the Good Luck gesture : )

 

Update: My machine shop today says that I 'CANNOT' have a blown head gasket and still have dry cylinders, and that I don't have a gasket leak. They wondered if I have a bad Oil Cooler. (lol, I don't even know if this has one ... will check shortly), but when cars do have a bad one, I have only seen this symptom presented as "oil in the coolant', vs with mine, coolant in the oil. Hmmm? Anyone ???

Seems I have indeed seen blown gaskets, water into oil and/or visa-versa and still had dry cylinders, (although acknowledging many of the times the cylinders are wet). Also, I have NO compression entering the cooling system. Bizarre.

Please oh please, crossing my fingers for a simple unseen solution ! lol : )

 

I would try a leak down test, or put some pressure on each cylinder when the piston is at the top of the compression stroke. Check that you don't see air bubbles coming out of the top of the radiator.

Maybe the head bolts are stretched? Cracked engine block?

Maybe try putting 14-15 psi on the radiator with a radiator pressure tester and look to see if coolant is filling a cylinder.

 

Thank you. As I had previously mentioned, I did check the bolts for stretching and did a radiator pressure test. All was good. I too had thought to do a leak down test at first, but then figured the combustion pressure, (on cylinders that had tested 150 psi on a compression check), would produce far more pressure than a leak down test. Again, I have No pressurization into the cooling system with the motor running. Still somehow, and only with the motor running, is coolant rapidly being pumped into the oil system.

I am now thinking it must be an internal head crack, or worst case, a cracked block. Something that requires combustion pressure.

Tear down tomorrow! (( but still inviting feedback !!! ))

Thanks again, and Be Well.

 

A leak down test is a useful tool to pinpoint the problem. You should be able to identify the particular cylinder or cylinder pair where coolant is making its way into the oil.

 

One curious thing, and I really don't know how this can be used as a clue for what's happening...??

How does water get into the oil immediately on startup? When you start the engine, the oil comes up to pressure almost immediately by virtue of the pump running & the oil being cool.

The coolant doesn't pressurize until it gets hot. The water pump circulates the water, but pressurization isn't caused by the pump - it's caused by the temperature.