Invisible Oil Leak
#11
Fuel pump fuse would be one good way to disable fuel. Unplug the 4 injectors themselsves would work too. Probably unplugging the wiring harness at the distributor would disable fuel & spark both which would be a good bonus.
The longer total cranking time with fuel being injected, makes the cylinder walls more & more wet with fuel. That can influence the measurement especially for the last one you measure.
I think you're right, plugged PCV valve might cause oil to leak OUT. But it's still easy to check the PCV system & good for the engine's general health.
The longer total cranking time with fuel being injected, makes the cylinder walls more & more wet with fuel. That can influence the measurement especially for the last one you measure.
I think you're right, plugged PCV valve might cause oil to leak OUT. But it's still easy to check the PCV system & good for the engine's general health.
#12
Re-do Compression Test
So I re-did the compression test. Disabled the fuel pump, car was warm, pedal to the metal......and guess what: Cylinder #1- 210 Lbs, cylinder #2- 215 Lbs, Cylinder #3- 210 Lbs, cylinder #4- 215 Lbs. Jim, you saved me from rebuilding the engine...Thanks!
That being said I've still got oil disappearing with no sign of leakage, an apparently fine running engine, and crystal green coolant.
I guess the next step is to play with the PCV stuff. That will be fun.
That being said I've still got oil disappearing with no sign of leakage, an apparently fine running engine, and crystal green coolant.
I guess the next step is to play with the PCV stuff. That will be fun.
#13
Actually the PCV stuff is sorta easy. It's all accessible on top of the engine. Make sure the hoses are clear. Check the PCV valve #2 like I said. Then make sure the hoses are open, not plugged with crud, not cracked & crumbling.
The metal breather tube #3 includes a coolant tube. Hose #4 & the connection to the air duct is what you want to check. The other 2 hoses carry anti-freeze to keep it warm - you don't have to open those up.
Manifold vacuum is supposed to suck air through the PCV valve #2 & the hose #1. Then air comes from the intake through breather line #3 & #4 to make up for what's sucked out.
If the PCV valve or it's hose is blocked, then excess oily air goes backwards through the breather line to the intake. That carries oil which gets burned in the engine.
The metal breather tube #3 includes a coolant tube. Hose #4 & the connection to the air duct is what you want to check. The other 2 hoses carry anti-freeze to keep it warm - you don't have to open those up.
Manifold vacuum is supposed to suck air through the PCV valve #2 & the hose #1. Then air comes from the intake through breather line #3 & #4 to make up for what's sucked out.
If the PCV valve or it's hose is blocked, then excess oily air goes backwards through the breather line to the intake. That carries oil which gets burned in the engine.
Last edited by JimBlake; 04-20-2010 at 08:07 AM.
#14
I just had this same issue with a 2001, 5 speed, 210K miles.
Wasn't 'leaking' oil, just sort of losing it. Mine was going down after about 1000 miles to where it was below the "fill" line.
For me, the valve gasket was in need of replacing (which explained the residue on behind the engine and technically down the back but it wasn't a leak that you would find on the garage floor), I also had an distributor O ring that needed replacing awhile back but that was an obvious loss of oil.
As these guys have said, PCV valve was definitely bad, there was absolutely no rattle and it was sort of dripping with oil.
I have since replaced it with the valve cover gasket and so far it seems to have fixed the problem. (also had timing belt replaced - due anyway, distributor rotor/plugs/wires - I don't think that had anything to do with it).
She hums just like when she was new.
Wasn't 'leaking' oil, just sort of losing it. Mine was going down after about 1000 miles to where it was below the "fill" line.
For me, the valve gasket was in need of replacing (which explained the residue on behind the engine and technically down the back but it wasn't a leak that you would find on the garage floor), I also had an distributor O ring that needed replacing awhile back but that was an obvious loss of oil.
As these guys have said, PCV valve was definitely bad, there was absolutely no rattle and it was sort of dripping with oil.
I have since replaced it with the valve cover gasket and so far it seems to have fixed the problem. (also had timing belt replaced - due anyway, distributor rotor/plugs/wires - I don't think that had anything to do with it).
She hums just like when she was new.
#15
Well I'm just about to give up. I bought a new PCV valve and replaced the old one.....thank God that's an easy thing to do....but the old one rattled and it looked as clean as the new one. I've done some surfing and it seems that this isn't an uncommon problem. I've always loved my Hondas. I've had a 79 Accord, an 84, and now this 2002. I changed the oil every 3000 Mi. religiously.
Thanks Mamtsberg. I'll check the back of the valve cover and look for signs of a leak.
This may be one where I'll just hand it off to the Honda shop and they can have their way with me. Hopefully they'll find something and I'll have some piece of mind.
And thanks to Honda Dude and Jim Blake. I sure appreciate the time you spent giving me advice. I wish I could buy you a cold one.
Thanks Mamtsberg. I'll check the back of the valve cover and look for signs of a leak.
This may be one where I'll just hand it off to the Honda shop and they can have their way with me. Hopefully they'll find something and I'll have some piece of mind.
And thanks to Honda Dude and Jim Blake. I sure appreciate the time you spent giving me advice. I wish I could buy you a cold one.
#16
Try this: Get someone to follow you in another car. Downshift & engine-brake. That makes the strongest vacuum in the intake manifold. Oily smoke?? That would indicate oil leaking through the valve stem seals & getting in alongside the valve stems. That oil leakage would not affect the compression, since the valves still close properly. Replacing those seals is an easier job than a bottom-end rebuild. And that oil leakage isn't horrible - doesn't indicate something dangerous or something that will do progressively more damage.
If not then it's back to cylinders & rings... I guess there's a certain amount of oil that can be burned in the combustion chamber without making visible smoke or oily smelling exhaust.
Sounds like you've pretty much ruled out anything else. Most importantly, rule out things that will do progressively more damage over time.
- oil leaking OUT would eventually be visible by dripping on the ground
- - (clean the engine well, so the oil cant be "stored" in the dirt?)
- check coolant (radiator not just overflow-bottle) for oil
- where else can it go??
I think if the oil-control rings (lowest in the stack) are allowing a bit more oil to stick to the cylinder wall, it just gets burned. Since your compression is good, and (I guess) the engine runs well, I think I'd let it go. Cost of adding oil vs. cost of rebuilding??
Obviously, keep an eye on the dipstick & don't allow the oil level to go too low. HondaDude, Desert (or anyone else) got any other ideas?
If not then it's back to cylinders & rings... I guess there's a certain amount of oil that can be burned in the combustion chamber without making visible smoke or oily smelling exhaust.
Sounds like you've pretty much ruled out anything else. Most importantly, rule out things that will do progressively more damage over time.
- oil leaking OUT would eventually be visible by dripping on the ground
- - (clean the engine well, so the oil cant be "stored" in the dirt?)
- check coolant (radiator not just overflow-bottle) for oil
- where else can it go??
I think if the oil-control rings (lowest in the stack) are allowing a bit more oil to stick to the cylinder wall, it just gets burned. Since your compression is good, and (I guess) the engine runs well, I think I'd let it go. Cost of adding oil vs. cost of rebuilding??
Obviously, keep an eye on the dipstick & don't allow the oil level to go too low. HondaDude, Desert (or anyone else) got any other ideas?
#17
Check for oil near where the tranny and motor mate up
I haven't been losing very much oil, but by the time I do an oil change (about 6000 miles with Mobil1 5w-20 I notice it goes down from the middle of the stick to the bottom hole.
I did find that it is leaking from what appears to be the rear main, from the passenger side of the oil pan to the tranny. It basically runs down the pan from the passenger to the driver side and there is a low point in the pan which is directly above the exhaust. It could be the oil pan itself, but with my luck I am guessing it is the rear main seal. I have not had the time to do a full diagnosis on it, but from what I can tell so far the oil basically drips right onto the exhaust and the exhaust is normally hot enough that it burns it off before it hits the ground, by the time the motor and the oil cool down and there is no pressure in there it stops leaking. I did notice the other day when doing plugs/wires/etc I finally saw a few drops on the ground.
That's my explanation of the "leak" at this point until I can get that tranny loose and take a good look at things.
By the way, I have a 2002 Accord SE, about 145000 miles on it, love it, unfortunately have the "boat" problem still (gonna put adjustables in the front and higher rate springs in the back since I always carry a lot of tools in the trunk for work, if anyone knows of any good "heavy duty" springs I would really appreciate the insight), have a few chips and dings, but overall I really like my Honda!
I did find that it is leaking from what appears to be the rear main, from the passenger side of the oil pan to the tranny. It basically runs down the pan from the passenger to the driver side and there is a low point in the pan which is directly above the exhaust. It could be the oil pan itself, but with my luck I am guessing it is the rear main seal. I have not had the time to do a full diagnosis on it, but from what I can tell so far the oil basically drips right onto the exhaust and the exhaust is normally hot enough that it burns it off before it hits the ground, by the time the motor and the oil cool down and there is no pressure in there it stops leaking. I did notice the other day when doing plugs/wires/etc I finally saw a few drops on the ground.
That's my explanation of the "leak" at this point until I can get that tranny loose and take a good look at things.
By the way, I have a 2002 Accord SE, about 145000 miles on it, love it, unfortunately have the "boat" problem still (gonna put adjustables in the front and higher rate springs in the back since I always carry a lot of tools in the trunk for work, if anyone knows of any good "heavy duty" springs I would really appreciate the insight), have a few chips and dings, but overall I really like my Honda!
#20
I have the same problem w my 2002 honda accord lx..... after doing compression test, pcv valve replacement, and radiator check all was perfect... except its still getting burned somewhere the guys at the mechanic shop say it could be a valve seal job and it would cost around $1000 i rly dont want to spend that much id rather do an h22 swap.. any other suggestions?
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