Hey everyone,

It has been a while since I have been on the board but today something has happened to my clutch. First some background, it is a 1998 Honda Accord EX with 247K miles and it looks brand new. Always kept up on oil changes/mx etc. The car was owned previously by and older gentleman who took great care of it. I immediately had the timing chain/water pump done and tune up and the car runs/drives fantastic, so just wanted to show that it has never been abused, just a high mileage car.

So today when I started the car the clutch felt normal when pushing it down but then IMMEDIATELY upon lifting the clutch it is engaged. I wasn't sure what to do so I pumped it a couple times and it seemed fine. Then a few miles down the road when I hit traffic, same thing except this time the clutch stayed on the floor for a second until I tapped it with my foot and it popped up and seemed to have some pressure. Anyway this is what is happening now, it is almost un-driveable in stop and go, but then once in a few it will work fine for a couple shifts then back to a no/low pressure situation on the floor and I have to pump it to get it to pop up. I checked the fluid and it is fine, no leaks or loss. My buddy said it is probably the "slave" cylinder? Anyway I thought I would ask you guys as in the past you have steered me in the right direction. I am very mechanical but this was my wifes car so I don't know alot about it and don't have a manual yet (getting one tomorrow). Can someone tell me what they think is going on, and if it is the slave cylinder where it is located and how difficult it is to change? Any help is greatly appreciated!

 

Just did some more reading on the net, seems to be that slave cylinders rarely go bad, so I'm leaning towards master. It looks like a straight forward job. Also I read that the masters can leak internally and the slave's can only leak externally. Well there is NO fluid loss and nothing on the slave so I'm assuming go ahead and change out the master right? Is there any way to reduce the amount of fluid before pulling the lines?

 

First try bleeding the clutch. (When was this done last?) Air in the system just might be the problem.

Slave cylinder is bolted to the engine, about mid-elevation, between the radiator fan & the engine. Have someone pump the clutch pedal - just like you'd pump the brakes up if there were air in there.

If you change something, you can drain fluid through the bleeder valve on the slave cylinder.

 

x2 on JimBlake's advice of bleeding the clutch first. Not sure how any air bubbles could have gotten in the lines, but it's essentially free (except for the brake fluid lost in the bleeding process) and we always recommend diagnosis before throwing parts at it.

 

Hey guys, this is going to be a frustrated ramble sorry, I'm going to try and be as detailed as possible. When I drained the fluid, oh my I was not prepared for what I say. The fluid was BLACK and there was sledge all over the bottom of the master reservoir, it was nasty. I'm embarrassed, but this is the first time I have looked at it. I flushed the system and cleaned everything and maybe that is partly why my #1 question below is the way it is, not sure, please please read on:

Ok, well I replaced the master cylinder then when trying to bleed the slave I noticed while under pressure that fluid squirted from under the boot at the seam so I thought it was bad too. Bought a new one and it leaked from the bleed valve no matter what I did, so took it back thinking it was bad and installed slave #2. This time even with a new o-ring from honda I could not get the slave #2 to stop leaking where the line attaches, took it off and noticed the brand new o-ring was chewed up. So replaced it with an extra o-ring I bought and same Fi$#^@%& problem, by this time I had 8 hours or so in this job with having to run to the store and take apart the system and put it back together, it was awful.

So about 10 tonight I had it and decided I could not get it fixed, everything was new, but it either leaked at the bleed valve or where the line fitting was so I was done. Thought of one last thing, to put the old slave back on so I did. I bled it as best as I could with my wife's help and the car is back up and running but with a couple of issues I need your help on.

1. I bled as much as I could, i didn't see bubbles coming out but the clutch now feels "lighter" then before and engages at about 1" off the floor where before it was several inches. The car drives fine so is this acceptable or what is the problem if it is?

2. Please educate me, I guess I assumed that the shaft/boot on the slave did NOT fill with fluid but I was wrong, it does so I am assuming this is obviously the way it is suppose to be since all three slaves did it. How in the hell does the slip on boot keep fluid in with not so much as even a clamp on it?

3. Why when bleeding every single slave cylinder (original one and 2 that I bought) when I tighten the bleeding valve would I still see fluid/bubbles escaping? I thought when that was locked it was locked, but on every single slave they all did it so it must be designed that way?

I've never done a hydraulic clutch before and honestly I'm so tired and frustrated even though the car is driving again. I have no idea if I should just stay driving it with it feeling lighter and engaging an inch off the floor or try to screw with it more. I just don't see screwing with it improving the situation as I did this over and over.

Just for information, the way I bled the clutch was had my wife step on the clutch while the bleed valve was open and then she put it to the floor I would close the valve and she would bring it up and repeat. Honestly this never seemed to work great so I had her just pump it with the valve open that seemed best. I obviously had the slave unbolted so the actuator would move in and out and I would try my best to keep pressure on it with my hand. The I would push on the actuator with the valve open to try to get more out and see if any air bubbles came out the top which I didn't see. I then just closed the valve and depressed the actuator on the slave as best as I could to fit it back into its spot and bolted everything up and the result is what I have already told you. I'm assuming I could have done this incorrectly but that is the way it said to do it in a manual and I watched a youtube where he did that as well. I guess I thought the clutch would feel rock hard after all this work but my wife swears up and down that the clutch pedal became "stiff" which I viewed as normal and she said it wasn't always like that. She actually said the pressure it is at now is more normal to what she remembers (I took over driving her car when she got a new one this past year). but both of us agree the pedal engaging and 1" off the floor is a big difference, honestly I could get used to it I just don't want to if I have done something wrong. After searching around the net I see that being low on a hydraulic clutch means you have good wear left, so maybe I'm being paranoid, but I still don't think it is right, shouldn't all clutches engage around half way? I do know I can adjust the clutch somewhat with the lock shaft, should I try that? Sorry for the long rant, PLEASE HELP!

 

Search for c-m5F0zEvyo on YouTube. This shows how to replace the clutch master and slave cylinder on a Civic. This will be very similar to your accord.

The slave should be bled bolted to the transmission. All you need to do is get the air out of there. That rubber boot should not be filled with fluid. If the plunger gets pushed all the way out, it can leak fluid.

 

Slave boot should NOT be filled with fluid.

Pedal will normally NOT spring back up while you're bleeding it. Loop some string under the pedal, so you can pull it back up. Use your foot to control it smoothly, DO NOT ALLOW IT TO SNAP QUICKLY UP.

 

Thanks guys, this is exactly what happened, I didn't realize that you could extend the cylinder all the way out. This crap could all been avoided if the F%@@%$# engineers would have designed the slave bleed valve with 1/2" more room so I didn't have to take off the damn thing to bleed it.

Just and update:

IT'S FIXED!!! I found out why the pedal was so close to the ground, freeplay in the clutch. I adjusted the locking rod on the pedal and now the clutch feels and shifts better then new. I know having clean fluid vs. the black crap in there made a huge difference as well.

I really appreciate you guys trying to help me, it means a lot, and thanks for the education on the slave boot. Now it makes sense, I would just let it extend all the way until the boot was fully out, then I noticed as my wife kept pumping the pedal that it would get bigger and bigger as the fluid kept going down in the reservoir. You would think I would have put 2 and 2 together but I was so beat and frustrated (never a good combo) I didn't even catch it. I say all this while making me look a fool in the hopes it may help someone in the future having the same issue and can search for my thread lol.

One last question. Why did both replacement slaves leak at the point where the line pushes in, not the compression fitting, but where the fitting actually goes into the cylinder with the o-ring? I looked on the oem one and it looks like the o-ring sits down recessed in the fitting where on the new ones, while it is the same size, the o-rings that Honda gave me are so much bigger then the hole it went in that it circumcised the o-ring every time I put it in????? It seems like there should be a smaller o-ring, but this is the correct size. I'm assuming it is suppose to pressure fit and mold to the smaller recess but it doesn't, it splits every time, no matter how gentle I am when pushing in the fitting to the slave. Any info would be GREATLY appreciated.

 

I vaguely remember something about changing that tube connection. Maybe you have an updated slave which means you have to get an updated tube so it fits properly???

 

Jim, that would sure makes sense. Drove it again last night and it was wonderful! The clutch has never felt this good so that is great. I'm just worried about the slave being original now with the new master cylinder. I'll keep watching it, but going through 2 new slaves and both of them leaking from that push in fitting there is something not right and I think I may just have to pay the big $$$$ and get the overpriced OEM one if I need to swap it.