no start issue
#1
10-08-2009, 01:35 PM
no start issue
92 accord lx 4dr auto a/c, 2.2l, no mods, 325k miles, owned since new.
monday i started the car and drove it 1/2 mile and it dies on me. could crank it but did not start up.
i towed home and started to look into it.
Since at about 100k miles years ago (10) it did the same thing (had it towed to dealer where they replaced the ignitor and it worked fine since).
i had a spare brand new in the package oem honda ignitor, so i took the distributor off, cleaned it, replaced the ignitor, replaced the coil, and put back in.
no start.
checked all plugs and wires. good.
then i took a plug wire out and put a spare spark plug in it to see if i could get spark. nothing. next thing to try is the coil, could hook up a new one to see if that does the trick.
the fuel pump pressurizes (2 second hum) when i turn the key, so i get fuel.
any ideas?
i do not have a volt/multimeter to use.
has been a really reliable car but I'm stumped.
thank you in advance.
monday i started the car and drove it 1/2 mile and it dies on me. could crank it but did not start up.
i towed home and started to look into it.
Since at about 100k miles years ago (10) it did the same thing (had it towed to dealer where they replaced the ignitor and it worked fine since).
i had a spare brand new in the package oem honda ignitor, so i took the distributor off, cleaned it, replaced the ignitor, replaced the coil, and put back in.
no start.
checked all plugs and wires. good.
then i took a plug wire out and put a spare spark plug in it to see if i could get spark. nothing. next thing to try is the coil, could hook up a new one to see if that does the trick.
the fuel pump pressurizes (2 second hum) when i turn the key, so i get fuel.
any ideas?
i do not have a volt/multimeter to use.
has been a really reliable car but I'm stumped.
thank you in advance.
#2
10-08-2009, 01:42 PM
more info
any chance the tbelt could have gone? I pulled out the timing rubber plug and can see the flywheel turn when i try to start the car, but not sure if this indicates if the tbelt is still good. was last replaced 80k ago.
could i have put the dist back in wrong? not sure because the slots only line up one way on the camshaft so i think i did it right.
batt is new a month ago and good.
no engine or mil lights come on indicating a problem.
thanks
any chance the tbelt could have gone? I pulled out the timing rubber plug and can see the flywheel turn when i try to start the car, but not sure if this indicates if the tbelt is still good. was last replaced 80k ago.
could i have put the dist back in wrong? not sure because the slots only line up one way on the camshaft so i think i did it right.
batt is new a month ago and good.
no engine or mil lights come on indicating a problem.
thanks
#3
10-08-2009, 02:20 PM
Easy check - crank the starter while watching through the oil-fill cap. Does the camshaft turn?
I think you'd notice if the timing belt broke. Cranking is too fast, with no compression, like when all 4 sparkplugs are removed.
If the distributor were in backwards, you WOULD get a spark. It would just happen at the top of the exhaust stroke, so there wouldn't be any fuel to ignite.
Check for battery-voltage at the distributor wiring harness (black/yellow wire?). I know you said you don't have a multimeter, but this might be a good excuse to buy one.
I think you'd notice if the timing belt broke. Cranking is too fast, with no compression, like when all 4 sparkplugs are removed.
If the distributor were in backwards, you WOULD get a spark. It would just happen at the top of the exhaust stroke, so there wouldn't be any fuel to ignite.
Check for battery-voltage at the distributor wiring harness (black/yellow wire?). I know you said you don't have a multimeter, but this might be a good excuse to buy one.
#4
10-08-2009, 03:49 PM
thanks Jim
When the engine cut out on me I heard no noise (like valves hitting or the noise of metal interference).
Would I not hear some pretty bad noises if the belt broke?
When I get home I'll still unscrew the oil fill hole and see if I can see any movement.
Any other ideas?
I was going to try plugging in a new coil to see if i can get spark. Would take just two connectors to try it out.
just thinking out loud here, but if the belt is gone, I'd still get spark if the coil and cap/rotor etc. was good right?
Would I not hear some pretty bad noises if the belt broke?
When I get home I'll still unscrew the oil fill hole and see if I can see any movement.
Any other ideas?
I was going to try plugging in a new coil to see if i can get spark. Would take just two connectors to try it out.
just thinking out loud here, but if the belt is gone, I'd still get spark if the coil and cap/rotor etc. was good right?
#5
10-08-2009, 04:05 PM
I don't think that you would get spark. The distributor wouldn't spin, and the spark would not make it to the proper wire. Plus the ECU wouldn't know when to send spark, because the crank and cam sensors in the distributor wouldn't pick up any signal, because the distributor wouldn't spin.
You can also remove the distributor cap and use a 19mm socket to turn the engine (counterclockwise). If the rotor turns, then the timing belt is still turning the cam shaft.
My friends belt jumped on his car, and he didn't hear any noise. When he tried to start the car, the starter spun the engine much quicker than normal like there was no compression.
If you get a volt meter (~$10), you can turn the key to the II position and see if the yel/blk wire going to the coil has 12V. If it doesn't, then suspect the ignition switch.
You can also remove the distributor cap and use a 19mm socket to turn the engine (counterclockwise). If the rotor turns, then the timing belt is still turning the cam shaft.
My friends belt jumped on his car, and he didn't hear any noise. When he tried to start the car, the starter spun the engine much quicker than normal like there was no compression.
If you get a volt meter (~$10), you can turn the key to the II position and see if the yel/blk wire going to the coil has 12V. If it doesn't, then suspect the ignition switch.
#6
10-08-2009, 04:09 PM
I think there WOULD be noises if the belt broke, like you say. But there's soundproofing, so it might have been hard to hear.
If you've got another coil, give it a try. After you verify the camshaft is turning.
If the belt is gone, the camshaft would not turn. Therefore the distributor doesn't turn, & there's no signal from the CYP/CKP/TDC sensors in the distributor. Therefore no spark.
But more likely (if it's got anything to do with timing belt at all), more likely the belt doesn't completely break. It loses some teeth, and maybe the camshaft DOES move in a jerky motion. I'm not real sure what to check, short of removing the upper timing cover & having a look while turning the crankshaft with a wrench.
You've already been cranking it (trying to start) so it's too late to be concerned with doing additional damage to the valves. I really think you would have noticed the uneven cranking with no compression for some cylinders.
If you've got another coil, give it a try. After you verify the camshaft is turning.
If the belt is gone, the camshaft would not turn. Therefore the distributor doesn't turn, & there's no signal from the CYP/CKP/TDC sensors in the distributor. Therefore no spark.
But more likely (if it's got anything to do with timing belt at all), more likely the belt doesn't completely break. It loses some teeth, and maybe the camshaft DOES move in a jerky motion. I'm not real sure what to check, short of removing the upper timing cover & having a look while turning the crankshaft with a wrench.
You've already been cranking it (trying to start) so it's too late to be concerned with doing additional damage to the valves. I really think you would have noticed the uneven cranking with no compression for some cylinders.
#8
10-08-2009, 04:30 PM
last bit of info
when I had the dist. off the car, i wiped up the area where the dist mates with the engine, looked inside and saw the cam shaft and the slotted rod end.
I did not try hard, but this did not seem to "spin" using my finger to move it.
Would this spin pretty easy if the belt was toast or would it be frozen up?
Thanks
I'll pull the cap off and the plastic cover and see if the rotor moves.
If it moves = good
no move = belt toast
I did not try hard, but this did not seem to "spin" using my finger to move it.
Would this spin pretty easy if the belt was toast or would it be frozen up?
Thanks
I'll pull the cap off and the plastic cover and see if the rotor moves.
If it moves = good
no move = belt toast
#9
10-09-2009, 06:40 AM
I said it before, if the belt were broke (& valves bent) you'd notice a tremendous difference in the sound of cranking. Be my guest & check the timing belt, but this sounds like a different problem.
Did you try the coil?
#10
10-09-2009, 10:45 AM
thank you JimBlake
your help is of enormous value to me and I do appreciate it.
I got home late and was not able to pull the cap off or try to crank the engine or try the coil (i'm not even going to remove the three nuts that hold the old one on, I'll simply undo the plug end and the connector end and plug in the new one to see if this works or not).
When I put the distributor back in the first day with the new igniter, it did fit in snugly, all I had to do was look at the angle of the slot on the end of the cam and turn the dist mating end to match, slide it in, and put the three bolts back in. the slot on the cam was pointed at approx. 2 and 8 if you can visualize a watch.
like i said before, i put my finger in the hole and tried to turn the cam shaft slot but it would not budge.
I plan to remove the 4 acorn nuts, ground nut and pull all 4 plugs out and pull the valve cover off to allow me a look at the belt as it loops over the sprocket.
I really hope it is not broke as I put in a new alt, new radiator, new exhaust from front to back (everything includining cat. conv.) and tires last fall. so if i can save it I'd like to keep it as a daily driver.
I did get a quote from 2 honda dealers (in minnesota twin cities area) on a t-belt job, including all drive belts and water pump - $700-1010 - pretty stepp for a 92 accord but the t-belt jobs have never been cheap. so if i crunched valves this may be even more expensive - what elese do you think would need to be looked at or replaced if the belt went? pistons? hmmm.
thanks all!!
will update this weekend.
I got home late and was not able to pull the cap off or try to crank the engine or try the coil (i'm not even going to remove the three nuts that hold the old one on, I'll simply undo the plug end and the connector end and plug in the new one to see if this works or not).
When I put the distributor back in the first day with the new igniter, it did fit in snugly, all I had to do was look at the angle of the slot on the end of the cam and turn the dist mating end to match, slide it in, and put the three bolts back in. the slot on the cam was pointed at approx. 2 and 8 if you can visualize a watch.
like i said before, i put my finger in the hole and tried to turn the cam shaft slot but it would not budge.
I plan to remove the 4 acorn nuts, ground nut and pull all 4 plugs out and pull the valve cover off to allow me a look at the belt as it loops over the sprocket.
I really hope it is not broke as I put in a new alt, new radiator, new exhaust from front to back (everything includining cat. conv.) and tires last fall. so if i can save it I'd like to keep it as a daily driver.
I did get a quote from 2 honda dealers (in minnesota twin cities area) on a t-belt job, including all drive belts and water pump - $700-1010 - pretty stepp for a 92 accord but the t-belt jobs have never been cheap. so if i crunched valves this may be even more expensive - what elese do you think would need to be looked at or replaced if the belt went? pistons? hmmm.
thanks all!!
will update this weekend.