Hi,

I have a 94 honda accord ex, 4 cyclinder, vtec, 140 some miles.

Over the past year it has had an intermittent problem with starting and immediately stopping. I turn the key to postion III, it starts, runs for maybe 0.5 seconds and immediately dies. CEL light stays on when this happens. It has never stalled once the engine is started. This only occurs when starting and makes no difference whether the engine it is hot or cold.

Over the past year the problem has become more frequent and seems to be worse in hot weather.

A year back when this first happened, I picked the low hanging fruit and installed a new main relay. That seemed to fix it, but within days the problem returned.

A few months after that I replaced the ignition switch. That did not fix the problem either.

In the past weeks, having read more online and the excellent guides on this forum, I pulled the error code 15 by shorting the 2 pin connector on passenger side - "ignition output signal missing or defective output signal".

Having pulled that code I checked the voltage across the Ignition Control Module (ICM, igniter) using the shop manual and Haines and I had battery voltage. Also checked the resistance across the coil terminals and that was ok too. I checked the spark at the plugs using a tester and that appeared to be ok. I can't quite remember the quality of the spark but I think it was yellowish. Will have to repeat that.

Having checked the ignition as best I could and thinking it was not an igniton problem, I checked out the fuel pump and convinced myself it was that. So I replaced the fuel pump today 06/16 and guess what, it isn't the fuel pump. The car is still not starting. And boy is that fuel pump replacement a total mare. Nasty job that.

So, I am thinking it is back to the ignition system and taking note of that error code 15. The following guide seems to be pointing to an igniter problem for error code 15, but before I go replacing anything else, I wanted to get some feedback/help.

Honda Acura ignition (no spark) troubleshooting tutorial - How to

Note that on my Honda, the ignition coil is inside the distributor.

Thank you.
M

 

A code 15.....the ICM is high on the list as the issue.

 

Thank you for getting back to me Poorma212. I do appreciate the help.

I think you are right about the ICM. I'll find out pretty soon cos I ordered a new one last night, the same Hitachi brand as I have on the car now.

I want to get this car to 20 years since i am fond of it, it's been a very solid car to this point....or just before all this....

thanks

 

There are some places that can test ICM's - forget who but I have read this before.

Then there are some resistance readings you can do on the dist to be sure the crank, cam sensors are reading correctly.

 

Thanks poorman212.

I got the new ICM igniter module a few days back, fitted it and it's still not starting unfortunately, same error code 15. But I happened to be passing O'Reilly AutoParts today so stopped in there and they do indeed test ICM units. That was a great tip and will keep that in mind for future issues. Thank you.

For the dist, I did check the ignition coil resistance readings last week but I'm going to revisit that. Do you have any more info on checking "crank, cam sensors are reading correctly"

I re-checked the spark today and am getting a nice blue spark on all four cylinders.

From what I am reading online, a number of folks have just replaced the whole distributor. I'm in two minds about that since the good spark tells me it's ok and yet I have that code 15 pointing at the distributor.

Also wondering whether there is a fault in the ECM computer since that seems to heavily involved in ignition and fuel delivery

 

We had the same symptoms, same code, nearly the same car (95) around the same mileage. Fixed the issue for good by replacing the whole distributor.

I never really did figure out what was wrong with the distributor. It could have been the ICM inside but when I did my postmortem, gutted the whole thing I noticed the wires inside had rotted exposing the internals, oil had leaked internally breaking down the plastic for the hall-effect sensors and actually the spinning shaft had made contact with one of the wires running into the ICM that wore a flat edge into the wire down to the metal which I wonder whether that would short out.

Maybe take a close look to see if something is up with the wires? But I would just return the ICM and just get a whole new distributor. Those things just go on Honda's when it's time I think.

 

Thank you for the response MessAround. The wires within my dist look to be in good condition. No fraying and no trace of oil at all.

I ordered up a used ECM computer Friday (part POA-A51), since a number of responses have pointed to that. If that doesn't fix it, I'll be looking at a new distributor.

Right now I'm checking all the ground connections around the engine compartment. All look good so far; taking them off and cleaning them.

The Haines manual mentioned for "Engine starts but stops immediately" - loose or faulty connections at the dist, coil or alternator. Since I have already gone through the dist, I checked the alternator connections and they look good. One thing I did notice on the alternator is that the large round electrical connector, when I took it off, there was a white silicon like material around the electrical pins. Other than that it was very clean, no corrosion. I am thinking that white residue was to aid electrical connection and intentionally used when the car was manufactured?

 

Do you have a multi-meter & can you do electrical tests?

Before you get a new distributor ($$), check for problems in the wiring from ECM to the distributor. When the car throws code 15, remember that the ECM cannot tell the difference between a bad ignitor vs. a broken wire.

 

Hi Jim and thanks for the response. Yes I do have a multimeter and although I'm new to it, I am able to do some electrical tests. The meter is a good one - Fluke 115 so it does all the relevant stuff including continuity.

Can you give any pointers on how to test the wiring between the ECM and the distributor, perhaps what wires/tests to do. Would a continuity test determine whether the wires were intact. Just not sure which wires to test. I guess I could use a long wire to extend the reach of the meter probes from the ECM back to a wire on the dist.

As an update, I did manage to test the voltage between the A21 (green/yellow) and A26 (brown) pins on the back of the ECM unit. That's was with ignition at position II and all the ecm plugs connected. Got a voltage of 8.74V.

Also checked all the main G* grounds yesterday. Took them off and cleaned them up (G2, G1, G101, G351).

 

Some positive news

Prompted by JimBlake, I did a continuity test using the fluke multimeter, from the yellow/green stripe pin wire at the back of the ECM computer unit (pin A21) and the yellow/green stripe wire that connects to the igniter (ICM unit) within the distributor. It passed, I got an audible signal.