I sure can use some opinions here from those who understand the Accord timing belt replacment proceedures.

My car is a 1991 Accord Wagon EX with a 2.2L F22-A6 motor. It runs like a top but it was due for new belts.

I spoke with a local mechanic who specializes in Saab, Accura and Honda. He agreed to do the replacment and gave me two choices on the parts. Honda OEM parts or aftermarket from PCI (Prefered Components Inc.). The difference in the parts price was right around $100. He left it completely up to me but did say he has had very good results with the PCI kits.

I decided to go with the aftermarket PCI kit and it was here in just a few days.

My mechanic does the replacment and calls me on the phone with a major problem. He claims there is something wrong and he has to completely disassemble the front end of the engine to determine what is wrong.

I went right to his shop to observe.

As soon as the engine was started there was a squeal from one of the belts. Initially it was thought to be the NEW Alternator or ACbelts. He used belt dressing on them while it ran but soon we saw smoke coming from undedr the timing belt cover.

Three mechanics checked over all that had been done after the front of the engine was disassembled all the allignment marks were correctand none could figure out the issue. The flat surface of the cam shaft belt was burnt and they all said the inner tensioner bearing was defective.

After removal the bearing was checkedbut ithad no issues a would spin perfectly. He reinstalled it and again found no issues.

As a last resort and not wanting to completely put the engine back together before finding the cause he installed everything but the cam shaft timing belt and re inspected. At this point he found the problem. When the adjusting nut is tightened as it must bebefore youstart the engine, the bearing would not spin.

Off it came again for further inspection.

Here is a side by side photo of the bearings. The old OEM Honda bearing is on the left and the new PCI bearing is on the right.



You can see that the new PCI bearings belt surface is quite a bit wider but note that it is also not as far away from the mounting surface of my engine. Height wise they are about the same but the extra width of the bearing surface brings the edge of the bearing much closer to the engine block.

Here are two more photos to help. One shows the front view and attachment points and the other shows a white plastic rod I substituted to depict the actual problem. The white rod is actually an aluminum pivot post molded into the front of my engine block that I show in the third photo.







When the adjusting nut is tightened down to lock the bearings in their correct adjustment, the inside edge of the bearing binds on the pivot post and will not spin.
Durring the adjustment phase and when the adjusting nut is loose this can't be detected.

There is just under 1/4" difference in the width of the bearings and the PCI bearing is that much closer to the pivot post that when he locked the adjusting nut he was also locking the free spin of the bearing and that cause the belt to squeal and burn.

My mechanic ground the head of the pivot post down to accomodate the wider PCI bearing and allow clearance and I ran to Honda to get a new belt quick.

All is working perfectly now but I got charged an additional $300 for 6 extra hours of labor and had to buy a second new belt for $58.

I am in contact with PCI at the moment but they are not being easy to get along with. I feel it is a design flaw and if their bearing was the correct width then this problem would not exist.
They claim they have sold over 2000 of these kits and I am the one and only problem they ever had.

I would like to hear from you guys your thoughts about this situation.

My mechanic is standing behind his work and says if the bearings were both the same then this job would have been done the first time and none of this would have happened. He is not happy and will be checking every PCI kit in the future for any such differences and claims he will insist on nothing but OEM parts if PCI refuses to stand behind their mistake.

I had his lift tied up for better then a day and a half finding and fixing this problem and I am sure he lost more then the additional $300 I paid him for his expertise.

Gary

Apparently I don't have the posting pictures idea here down very well.

 

MODERATOR, Please delete this entire thread. It is pretty much useless without the photos and I can't figure out how to get them to appear.

Thanks

Gary L

 

I want to thank Gary L for his post. Even w/o the pics I know this problem, but did not know the reason. I currently have a 94EX that squeals on startup, but otherwise runs smooth, after startup. I installed aftermarket (not sure if PCI, but name sounds familiar) bearings when I installed the new timing belt a few months ago, and noise has been present since then.

I thought the crankshaft timing belt sprocket was somehow contacting the engine behind (oil pump housing), but I've got a strong feeling my problem is same as yours. I had planned to shim behind the harmonic balancer/crankshaft pulley but I think you've prevented a lost effort.

I plan to pull the timing belt cover tomorrow and hopefully find the problem is same as yours. I have a sparebearing and hopefully haven't damaged my balance shaft belt.

I'll post my findings.

Here's a pic of the bearings I purchased.

Regards

[IMG]local://upfiles/8174/AB3C96DB4C124B5D9FEDFB7B65CFDE8A.jpg[/IMG]

 

Check to make sure you have the correct parts for your vehicle. They may have been boxed wrong or the company may have their applications listed wrong. There are lots of Honda Bearings like that.

TexasHonda:
I think you are going to find out the crank pulley is wearing on the timing belt on start up like my 1995 Accord did. It only happened on start up with the AC on. I was shocked not to find the compressor clutch bad but the wear on the timing belt cover instead. I am at least a week away from getting mine back together to see if a new cover makes a difference. The cover was moving around on the stops built into the cover bolts.

 

Your mechanic should have done a new part / old part comparison, and should cover the extra labor, unless you provided the mechanic the parts. Even then, they should take some responsibility. You paid them for their expertise in doing the work. They failed.

 

If the garage purchased the parts the extra labor is on them. They make a few dollars on the parts which covers mistakes like this, if you got the part that is totally different. All the parts company can do is refund or replace the parts.

 

Smaglik, he chose aftermarket over OEM, not the mechanics. I don't see how they could be held responsible for parts or labor.

 

Did the garage say if you choose aftermarket parts we can’t guarantee the job? They got the wrong parts and install them. What part did the customer do wrong? I have worked in garages and dealerships and if the garage gets the parts it is their problem. If they didn’t want to use aftermarket they shouldn’t have offered.

 

A good example, a customer comes in for brakes. Do you want the factory ones or aftermarket? The customer chooses aftermarket and the metal backing of the pad is hitting the rotor and grinding who is at fault?
If the question was do you want factory or aftermarket and the garage said “we only guaranty the factory ones” then that is totally different.

The problem comes in with the mechanic making commission it isn’t their fault so who pays. Sounds like the garage’s goodwill account. The policy has to be give to the customer before the repairs are done.

 

I pulled the tensioner parts from my 94EX today and compared them to the parts removed earlier this year. I could detect no differences. I did not see any evidence of binding or contact on the tensioner rotating parts. The little stud did have some marks on it, but it appeared only the timing belt could contact the stud, not the tensioner itself.

Still when I put the belts back in place, installed the crankshaft pulley,and tightened the tensioner nut to lock the tension, the engine was frozen. It released when I released the tensioner nut. This is same as described by Gary L.

I'll try again tomorrow.

regards